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Pete Campbell
Jedi
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Joined: 06/18/2014 10:55 PM EDT
Messages: 1590
Location: Fort Pierce, SE Florida
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"Double tapped breaker(s) inside panel box (more than one electrical conductor attached). This is not standard practice, and may cause overheating or even an electrical fire. Recommend evaluation by an electrician. "


I am NOT going to waste time specifying the exact location, unless there are multiple panels. Anyone that can't find a DT in one panel is not qual'd to open the damn thing.

One pic of one DT only. Short and simple.

Pete Campbell
Guaranteed Inspections
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Inspecting Fort Pierce, St. Lucie Village, Lakewood Park, Vero Beach, Indian River Shores, Sebastian, Fellsmere, Fort Drum, Okeechobee, Jensen Beach, Stuart, Palm City, Hobe Sound and Indiantown, Florida.

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AmericanHome
The HOFF

Joined: 07/16/2014 09:54 AM EDT
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Watch for those newer breakers designed for double lugging. When a home owner pays $85 or more for a electrical service call, only to hear the electrician explain that this breaker is designed for two wires ... you'll be asked to pay for the call!

I always include a picture with the comment "Double lugged (tapped) breaker is not allowable. A lug designed for one wire may not adequately secure two or more wires. Electrical fires have occurred from improperly secured lugs. A qualified electrician should determine (1) if the circuit should be split to a new breaker or (2) a breaker designed for double tapping should be used."

My philosophy is to tell whats wrong, why it's wrong and how to fix it in terms a layperson can understand.

FYI: Just back from Scout Camp where I met a new parent. After chatting a bit he told me his home inspection horror story. Bought a home 2 years ago. Inspection report noted that a natural gas furnace was installed on a propane system. He didn't ask for clarification. After the furnace melted down last winter, the HVAC repairman explained why. We MUST explain any defects so the home buyers understand the what, why and how!

James Freed
President
American Home Inspection Company, LLC
Liberty, MO 64068
816-510-4734
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Pete Campbell
Jedi
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Joined: 06/18/2014 10:55 PM EDT
Messages: 1590
Location: Fort Pierce, SE Florida
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Perhaps I should have mentioned that in my post. I was assuming a standard breaker in what was said, but for the benefit of those reading this forum there are breakers designed for this purpose!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/17/2014 12:22 AM EDT


Pete Campbell
Guaranteed Inspections
772-882-9623
ClientCare@GuaranteedInspections.us
http://www.PortStLucieInspections.com
http://www.GuaranteedInspections.us
http://www.GuaranteedInspections.biz



Inspecting Fort Pierce, St. Lucie Village, Lakewood Park, Vero Beach, Indian River Shores, Sebastian, Fellsmere, Fort Drum, Okeechobee, Jensen Beach, Stuart, Palm City, Hobe Sound and Indiantown, Florida.

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Pete Campbell
Jedi
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Joined: 06/18/2014 10:55 PM EDT
Messages: 1590
Location: Fort Pierce, SE Florida
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BTW, who are you and where are you located?

Pete Campbell
Guaranteed Inspections
772-882-9623
ClientCare@GuaranteedInspections.us
http://www.PortStLucieInspections.com
http://www.GuaranteedInspections.us
http://www.GuaranteedInspections.biz



Inspecting Fort Pierce, St. Lucie Village, Lakewood Park, Vero Beach, Indian River Shores, Sebastian, Fellsmere, Fort Drum, Okeechobee, Jensen Beach, Stuart, Palm City, Hobe Sound and Indiantown, Florida.

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Tracy Echols
Rolling Stone
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Joined: 06/26/2014 03:14 PM EDT
Messages: 4
Location: Jackson, MS
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This is a great thread. What are some other common defect narratives that all of you use regularly? Example...improper temp differential (ambient air test) for AC, 2 prong outlets, sloping floors, switches that don't operate a fixture (bulbs out?) etc..

Tracy Echols
Echols Home Inspections, LLC
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Nathan
King
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Joined: 06/17/2014 09:32 PM EDT
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Location: Carmel, IN
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EOPM W/N @ SE CRNR CS


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Tracy Echols
Rolling Stone
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Joined: 06/26/2014 03:14 PM EDT
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Location: Jackson, MS
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I got SE corner but that's it... do tell!

Tracy Echols
Echols Home Inspections, LLC
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Nathan
King
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Joined: 06/17/2014 09:32 PM EDT
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Location: Carmel, IN
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Just short hand from when I used to type these things on a Canon 20 years ago.

"Evidence of prior moisture was noted at southeast corner of crawl space."

Pretty solid narrative if you ask me!

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Elpeacen
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Joined: 09/10/2014 02:35 AM EDT
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I try to mention that double tapping can cause electrical fire.

I know of one of my mother's tenants, whose previous rental building burned to the ground. It became obvious why when, a few months into the tenancy, she had her boyfriend go into her electrical panel to double tap her circuits to a neighboring panel to steal electricity cause she did not want to pay for it.

I consider it a moral obligation to report the danger of double tapping because someone could die as a result of such omission or lack of that knowledge. I personally almost died in an electrical fire, though not from double tapping.

Speaks to the importance of hiring a home inspector when purchasing a home. Something as simple as that can save a live.

Leon

Leon Slack, III
GS & TJ Services, Inc.
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Nathan
King
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Joined: 06/17/2014 09:32 PM EDT
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Location: Carmel, IN
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What we do saves lives. You're a great inspector!

We've executed over 150,000 free repairs to largely fire hazards with RecallChek. I'm damn proud of that and couldn't have done it without great inspectors supporting us.

Thanks all.

P. Nathan Thornberry
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Take Your Career to the Next Level > https://youtu.be/hdBCJbl5byo
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Greg Pownall
Wizard
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Joined: 07/01/2014 08:35 PM EDT
Messages: 174
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
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Nathan wrote:What we do saves lives. You're a great inspector!

We've executed over 150,000 free repairs to largely fire hazards with RecallChek. I'm damn proud of that and couldn't have done it without great inspectors supporting us.

Thanks all.


That's a great track record, credential... Nice
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Cameron Anderson
P. Diddy
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Joined: 09/27/2014 09:37 AM EDT
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Location: Peoria, IL
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Tracy Echols wrote:This is a great thread. What are some other common defect narratives that all of you use regularly? Example...improper temp differential (ambient air test) for AC, 2 prong outlets, sloping floors, switches that don't operate a fixture (bulbs out?) etc..

I feel compelled to ask, why would you be calling out two prong outlets? They're acceptable. Are you just recommending an upgrade of some sort?

--------

And to the OP topic:

There are doubletaps in the main panel at connections designed to only carry a single conductor.² ³

I have another comment which uses the term "double lugs". Photos always accompanied the comment with a shorter but similar caption. I use a system of footnotes for many of my repetitive recommendations. Electrical panels is a good example of where footnotes always apply. The recommendation is always that a qualified or licensed contractor perform the work(²) and that the electrical issue is a safety hazard(³). The footnotes prevent those areas of the report from getting muddled with repetitive recommendations or calls to action.

For the purpose of the OP's topic, if I were including the recommendations directly in my electrical comments I would probably write it like this:

There are doubletaps in the main panel at connections designed to only carry a single conductor. Poorly installed or improper wiring connections can cause overheating or arcing and are a serious fire hazard. Recommend repairs by a qualified electrician.

Someone mentioned they write out how the issue is to be repaired. I have to disagree with this strongly. At that point you are putting on the hat and taking on the liability of a contractor.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 10/25/2014 11:49 PM EDT

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Joe Tedesco
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Joined: 06/19/2014 08:59 AM EDT
Messages: 151
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
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Joe Tedesco wrote:Look for the Circuit Breaker Marking Guide here: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/regulator/electrical/newsletters/

Then go to #19. Multiple Conductor Connectors — If the terminals of a circuit breaker are acceptable for use with multiple connections in one hole, and the breaker is intended for this type of use, the breaker is marked to indicate the proper multiple connections. This is uncommon for breakers—ordinarily, the terminals are suitable for only one wire per hole.


BUMP! This is the way I would address this problem, and in the electrical industry local and state certified electrical inspectors would address this problem in the same way according to Section 110.2 in the NEC. UL has developed this standard ul.com/global/documents/.../MoldedCaseCircuitBreakersMG.pdf that covers this issue in details as indicated above. I agree that a simple pig tail would satisfy the concerns of the Home Inspector. I can think of many other electrical defects that are often missed, or ignored because some say: "it is beyond the SOP in my area." Look again at #19 here: ul.com/global/documents/.../MoldedCaseCircuitBreakersMG.pdf

Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

My statements, written or oral on this site, shall not be considered as the official position of NFPA or any of its Committees, and shall not be considered to be, nor be relied upon as, a Formal Interpretation. They are my personal opinions.
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Nathan
King
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Joined: 06/17/2014 09:32 PM EDT
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Location: Carmel, IN
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I'm with Cameron. Two prong outlets are fine under the right circumstances. Not a defect by definition.

P. Nathan Thornberry
www.Nathan.tv
Take Your Career to the Next Level > https://youtu.be/hdBCJbl5byo
The #1 Vendor in Real Estate & Home Inspection
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Find a Certified Inspection Expert exclusively at www.InspectionCentral.net
Get your E&O Insurance at 20%+ off your current rates at www.RWSinsurance.com
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jeff32@satx.rr.com
Maverick

Joined: 12/05/2014 10:07 AM EST
Messages: 87
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Photographic Art wrote:
John Villella wrote:Russ,

OK...here you go -

[[ISSUES]]The breaker(s) at the main electric panel at the basement has <<number>> double taps present. This is considered improper until corrected.


I'm not sure what else you would want to say in the report. It's short and it's simple, but I'm always willing to listen to what others have to say.

Even after a double tap is corrected, a double tap is still considered improper, is it not?


Not necessarily square d panels and breakers are often UL listed for double lugging. If I'm at a structure and it say has a 20 amp square d breaker and this is how the panel and wiring was designed than I don't write it, most of the time it was not wired originally to be wired dbl lugged. If someone has added a circuit and dbl lugged the square d then I write it.

Have to remember cots time amps = watts. So a 2400 watt circuit that has had a circuit added to it by double lugging can often exceed the 2400 watt rating even for the square d that is UL listed for double lugging.

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